Thursday, October 1, 2009

Was Roy's win really a good win?

Did Roy Nelson expose a technicality to win fights?

Last night Roy Nelson exposed Kimbo's already suspect ground game. But he may have exposed something far more interesting; the ability to win a fight without really hurting your opponent.

Earlier in the show, Roy explained to teammates that unanswered blows to an opponent would cause the referee to stop the fight even if those blows were patty cake type attacks. Using an open hand to explain, he slapped himself on the face saying that as long as the opponent isn't defending himself, even something like that would be enough to stop the fight.

As we found out, he was correct.

While it is true that Kimbo couldn't get out of the position, it is equally true that the attacks that Roy were using wouldn't stop Kimbo and weren't really doing a lot of damage. According to the rules, Herb Dean made the right call, but for actual engagement of battle, was it correct? If all it takes to win is the equivalent of "stop hitting yourself" that so many bullies used to use on playgrounds across the country, don't you think that this is something we'll see more of? When Matt Hughes uses this same move, he puts power into his punches and finished BJ Penn and Carlos Newton. When Roy did it, he was looking to the Ref to stop the fight.

Roy's win was legitimate, don't get me wrong, but the way that he won doesn't sit right with me. We will talk more about this on tonight's show, so make sure you are there.


  1. Look at the illegal moves (fence grabbing, eye pokes, groin kicks) that fighters can successfully use - at least once - in a fight without any real penalty (sometimes without even a warning). Now THAT, is something to investigate.

    Those that don't like the pitter-patter attack should be happy that the Nelson/Kimbo fight wasn't stopped in the 1st round, when it could have been because the same thing was happening and Kimbo was warned...10 seconds pass and he makes NO defense...and the fight still isn't stopped. Herb Dean should have told Nelson to put more into the punches if he wasn't going to stop it based on weak punches. He waffled, then later stopped it anyway. In this fight it didn't matter because Kimbo was spent and had no complaints. In the future, it might be more problematic. The rules aren't clear. So sure, add it to the list of things to reconsider in the sport...or just leave it up to the ref to decide (as it is now).

  2. I thought Roy definitely won decisively. When an experienced fighter fights an inexperienced fighter this is usually what happens. the fight tends to go to one place and is one sided. Roys punches at the end of the first round looked more powerful, and he was in an extremely dominant position where he knew he was going to win (a second time). Why should he waste energy when it doesn't go onto his record any way’s. Plus it easily could have been stopped in the first. Basically what I’m trying to say is there are many variable's on the "The Ultimate Fighter" that you must add to the equation when questioning why a fighter performed a certain way.
    Onto Kimbo. I thought his performance looked a little one dimensional. Kimbo seemed as though he was always looking for the big uppercut or hook. He is not slugging with joe-smo brawlers anymore, he is playing chess against highly skilled mma tactitioners. it's good to have a weapon that people fear but it's better to be well rounded in all area's of the game i.e. clinch, reversal’s take down and ground defense. Having said that, I think Kimbo did okay. His leg kicks in the beginning of the fight looked great, and kimbos dirty boxing looked on point. One mistake Kimbo made though was giving an experienced opponent to much time to think. You have to be quick and pressure Vets because they've been there longer, but once you take the pressure off and give them time to think you've basically lost(clinch). If Kimbo works on what he sucks at, the ground,clinch,takedown defense and speed, and looks at the game more strategically. I know he will do great and possibly become one of the greatest; but he must adapt and work very hard. I definitely look forward to seeing him fight in the future.

    David M

  3. In my opinion it was a legit win, but not a definitive one in terms of the audience wants.

    They want to see blood or knocked out.

    My boxing coach tells me the main goal of boxing is to hit without being hit.

    My BJJ tell me that the main goal is to have a smaller weaker guy to use the whole body as a weapon. Fight an arm with a leg, one arm with two arm and your body weight to control.

    I dont like Roy's attitude, or rather what his attitude is shown as by the producers of TUF, but he beat Kimbo using Mixed Martial Arts.

    Kimbo is still a mixed martial art in training and will learn to improve the weaker areas. I would class his ground skills as white belt BJJ.

    Herb dean done the right thing. He didnt need to see anymore. Kimbo couldnt defend being put in that position (r1 and r2). He couldnt improve on his position as well.

    Kimbo's head was flat on the mat taking shots. If you have ever trained mma, its a horrible shot, the whole skull is being shocked because the power is being put straight to the skull and then back up from the floor. You wont get knocked out, but trust me you can suffer far worse damage.

    A knock out is less painful and the only serious danger is actually how you land.

  4. The ref is there to make decisions. If everything were simply black and white, we wouldn't need highly skilled refs.

    It should have been up to the ref to decide if Kimbo was in danger, or incurring injury. That takes a judgment call.

    If what was happening was what 90% of the audience saw was happening, it should not have been stopped. The blows were less damaging and for a shorter period of time than they had been in the first round, yet it wasn't stopped if Herb Dean was trying to use common sense, then decided to stick to the black and white rules.

  5. I really think anyone that didnt like that win is really only a fan of violence and not a true fan of MMA... its a sport people. the goal is to show dominance and win, not inflict pain.. those who question this win due to lack of force in roys punches should take a look at why they like this "sport". He gained a dominant position and clearly showed he could hurt kimbo if he desired, hitting someone 10 times lightly to demonstate that you could have hit them ten times and caused them injury should be praised not frowned apon.. thats why its a rule. if anything it should have been stopped in the first rd. im not against knockouts etc just not if they arent needed... we all want to see fghters fight for a long time and i hate to see the excess blows on a downed fighter, ex. rampage's 3 extra hits on wandy.... think about it...harder shots+shorter careers...and its probably the only reason kimbo might come back on tuf10! no time off due to ko...

  6. "But he may have exposed something far more interesting; the ability to win a fight without really hurting your opponent."

    Yeah, like submission specialists haven't been doing this for ages.

    And who, with any MIX in their bag of Mixed Martial Artist skills lays flat on their back and gets held in a crucifix multiple times and at length in a fight.

    I have a new show I want to see...It's called "How low can you go" and each week it features a smaller and smaller skilled mixed martial artist with a great ground game taking on the "street certified" and "ring retarded" Kimbo. People could bet on how small of an opponent can submit Kimbo and in what amount of time.

    I've got two words for you...Flying Armbar!

  7. Thank you! I'm glad I wasn't the only one a little bothered with the stoppage. It was certainly legitimate, but a stoppage with zero damage? Why wasn't Couture/Ortiz stopped from unanswered butt slaps? Nelson was scoring points, but I would rather see him in a grappling match than watch him compete in MMA again.

    Looking forward to hearing the radio analysis.

    Adam B

  8. It was a two round fight, and Kimbo wasn't getting out of the position. Good stoppage. Sure it's not the same as a arm bar submission, but it was a type of submission, nonetheless..

  9. in this season, all fighters get to stay in the house after they fight. so why would roy beat the living shit out of kimbo, spend more energy for the same result? so you can satisfy your blood thrist? roy did the smart strategic thing here, he beat kimbo, yet he didnt hurt him. so they might form an alliance in the house because kimbo might be the number one target, but guess who is number two? roy aint dumb. guys could isolate him and put some shit on his food, play with his mind, disturb his sleep, do shit like that to take advantage of that in the fight.